In the fifth episode of our ongoing ‘Woven Talks’ vlog series, Si Muddell chats to our CEO and Founder, Helen Darlington.
Helen touches on many topics, from the roller-coaster start-up years of INK Digital and INK’s rebrand to Woven in 2018, to her personal experiences of being one of the few women at the helm of a successful, award-winning branding agency.
Watch the video or read the full transcript below.
Video Transcript
Si Muddell:
Hi, everyone. Welcome to our next episode of our blog series. I’m very excited to have the wonderful Helen, who’s our Woven’s founder, and she’s got tons of things to talk about today. And actually, we’re going to get a bit personal and hear about the challenges, the successes, the learnings, and frankly, the pure mental determination, I think, that’s driven you throughout your career. And I think there’s a lot that people can learn and be motivated by. So I’m as excited as a listener, as I am in my position. So by way of introduction, if you don’t know who we are, I’m Si, I’m the chief growth officer at Woven. And as I’ve already said, I’ll let Helen introduce herself?
Helen Darlington:
Hey everybody, I’m Helen I’m founder and director of Woven.
Si Muddell:
Brilliant. Like I said, what we’re wanting today, and we’ve spoken about this, prior to doing this, is really looking at what makes you tick? I think I said, what makes you growl? What inspires you and how do you sustain the level of energy and motivation that you’ve you’ve clearly got? So again, I’m excited. So when you travel, and I was very fortunate to travel for a year around the world, with my lovely partner, they always say, it’s the people that make a place.
Si Muddell:
I think the same is very much true about the workplace. When I was going through, looking at where to work back in, well, probably this time last year, actually I was looking into you and Woven and who you were. I came across a really intriguing podcast that you were on, that talked about your story a bit more, and it’d be really great to hear about your story from the start, if that’s okay?
Helen Darlington:
Yeah, off course. I mean, like you said, this is quite personal. So some of this is it’s a little difficult to talk about. But I’m going to start from being quite young, because I think that’s been fundamental in where I’ve got to today. So from being quite young, I’ve always had the sense of not fitting in. That was amplified when I was diagnosed with dyslexia. I genuinely struggled with that for quite a few years. I didn’t follow the rules. I enjoyed arguing with my teachers, probably more than they enjoyed it. I was a little less normal, but I grew to love my dyslexia and all that it gives me.
Helen Darlington:
As a young adult. I didn’t really have a sense of what I wanted to do for a career. I studied desktop publishing management science, and once I left education, I traveled like you did. I temped for a while, until I found a work home that excited me. That was [BT 00:03:13]. So working in the technology innovation team with those guys, we trialed new tack. We pushed boundaries, and it was really solid fun for about four years. But I longed for a new challenge. And so I moved to run a marketing team, which was probably my first experience of agency life. That looked fun. So about a year or so later, I moved again, and that was agency-side.
Helen Darlington:
I suppose I’ve never feared to change. I know some people find it really stressful, but I genuinely find it exciting. I’d probably go so far as to say I crave change and all of the challenges that come with something new. So when I couldn’t find a work to fulfill that desire for progression and pushing boundaries, I decided to set it up on my own. That was 18 years ago. I didn’t have a plan. I just knew, I wanted to control my own destiny. I specifically love Ray Dalio’s quote, which says, “Sincerely believe that you might not know the best possible path, and recognize that your ability to deal well with not knowing is more important than whatever it is you do know.” That’s kind of how I live really, I’m incredibly determined, rather competitive.
Si Muddell:
No, really? You’re not as competitive as me?
Helen Darlington:
Well, I don’t know, maybe. I always have been, and I think that rollercoaster of a journey, I’m still enjoying it. From those early days of setting up the business through to now, it has been a ride. Just when you think something’s working incredibly well, a bump appears. I think it’s the belief that anything is possible. No matter the odds, we can do it, we can make it more exciting. We can solve challenges, we can grow. It’s never really about what happens along the way. It’s more about how we respond to what happens.
Si Muddell:
How, talk us through, so you made the choice to start up the agency. How did you do that? What were the challenges and what was going through your mind right at that moment in time? Where you’d been working for the man, and now you’re not, you’re working for yourself. That must be incredibly exciting and horrifying, I guess, at the same time.
Helen Darlington:
I mean, I was 26, which I think, it’s a brilliant age. Because you, I didn’t realize my mortality at my age. You don’t really have as many fears or worries or financial commitments as you do, when you getting older. It was a challenge. It was something new. It was something to try. And look, if it didn’t work out, it didn’t work out. It’s not a failure. I think the failure is if you don’t give it a try.
Si Muddell:
Yeah, no, exactly. So, so INK Digital was created founded 18 years ago, was it?
Helen Darlington:
Yeah, 2002.
Si Muddell:
So talk us through those initial years. Obviously we’re no longer INK. We’re now Woven. So why INK and why Woven and what’s the journey been like going from INK to Woven? And what’s the difference between those two things?
Helen Darlington:
It’s adaption or evolution I, from INK, the marketplace was very different back then to what it is now. Digital was definitely emerging, it wasn’t as founded as it is currently. So I fulfilled a role. I was a freelancer, INK was simply an umbrella for a freelancer to go out and pretend to be a little bit bigger as a business than I was, just me in my spare bedroom at that time. So the change from INK to Woven, it’s been massive, but it is simply adaption or evolution to the market, to the needs of the clients, to the clients themselves.
Helen Darlington:
The principles through that evolution have been pretty much the same. So the principles of marketing, it was a very different world. We had a lot less opportunities than we do now, but we all know any business that doesn’t change our adapt struggles and potentially ultimately dies. That’s not in my nature, Si, it just isn’t. One of the main things I’m truly precious about in my work, is being the best that we can be for our team, for our fantastic clients and to live by that sentiment. We have to regularly adapt. It might not always feel graceful when we do, but there’s normally a really good reason behind it.
Si Muddell:
Yeah. I think my impression on everything, and again, what’s attracted me to Woven, is the fact that I know that it might sound cliche, and I get that to, one, to be sat at the table with the client and B, have a strategic partnership. But, frankly, the tenure of some of our biggest clients is within the years, right? It’s six, seven, eight years. I think in any relationship, regardless of it being strategic or not, just a personal relationship, it’s about honesty, it’s about integrity and it’s about clients paying us to not be yes-people. But to actually have those difficult conversations.
Si Muddell:
Say, “You know what? That’s rubbish. We think this, and this might be a better way of doing it. And if it were our money, we really care about what happens with that money, and this is where we would place our money.” I think that’s for me as well, where like you say, we’ve evolved and adapted and found that place of which, where we feel we give most value and everything that we did at INK still exists, right? It’s just this higher level of that strategic partnership, which is being sat at the, the C-suite table, the director table. Would that be fair to say?
Helen Darlington:
It is, very much so, yeah, 100%.
Si Muddell:
You’ve got, you’ve had a really good career, not over yet, you’ve achieved a lot. What are the things that you would say you’re most proud of in that time?
Helen Darlington:
Oh, do you know what? I could talk about a lot of things that I’m really proud of. I suppose, okay, from winning our first massive contract with the amazing gang, that once was [LA Fitness 00:00:10:26], [Mark Jenkins 00:00:10:27], [Claire Roland 00:00:10:28], [Jim Powdrill 00:10:29], [Jen Julian 00:10:30] and the team were great. What a massive cue for two people in the team to win the digital [inaudible 00:10:40] for LA Fitness and to take what was a very traditional agency, sorry, very traditional industry model and turn it into an opportunity to buy a membership online. Which you couldn’t do before we started working with LA.
Si Muddell:
Yeah.
Helen Darlington:
The work that was both challenging and really exciting. The things that we managed to achieve opened up a number of equally exciting doors. So that was one incredibly proud time. Then there’s moving in our proper office, celebrating a team member’s fifth year anniversary, opening a second office, working with some of the most amazing and genuinely lovely clients. I’ve got to say Princess Yachts, [Guild 00:00:11:31], [inaudible 00:11:32], but ultimately there’s the work that we’re producing as a team to help support and grow clients, that leads to amazing awards. So there’s been absolutely stacks of really memorable, positive, proud moments.
Si Muddell:
Yeah, also when you’ve brought people into the business and they might have been at the start-end of their career, and then I know, like [Katie 00:12:05], our brilliant creative director. She was with INK for a few years and was brilliant, and then she went away to develop her career and she’s now-
Helen Darlington:
And she came back.
Si Muddell:
she’s come back. So that says a lot. That’s good. But also, it must be an incredibly proud feeling to know that you’ve nurtured that and they’ve gone away and they’ve come back and they’re even better now. And you’ve helped nurture that skillset and that expertise. That must be a great feeling?
Helen Darlington:
It is genuinely, I mean, you’ve mentioned Katie, there’s been, there’s been a few team members that over the years, I would welcome back whole heartedly. Another one is an account manager, she was then. She’s flying high in New Zealand at the moment, [Steph 00:12:57], she was amazing. We’ve been really fortunate to hire some fantastic talent in the business. Some of it is currently with us. Some of it has come back and some of it, some people have left and that’s fine. And we support everybody, whether they’re with those now or, or not.
Si Muddell:
I suppose to flip the question, with every positive side of things, it can be a bit bumpy at times and no doubt in 18 years, there’s been a couple of bumps. What’s been the biggest challenges that you’ve had? I guess more importantly, how did you solve them and what did you learn from those challenges?
Helen Darlington:
I’m going to focus on one challenge, and it was the year 2018. So let me start in 2017, and I’ll build up to why it was a challenge, 2017 in November, we changed our brand. We repositioned ourselves and we redefined our offering. That was all super positive and a really great next step forward for our business evolution. However, we didn’t manage that transition very well. We tried to keep the balance of the old INK way of doing things and the new Woven way forward. It didn’t work. We didn’t succeed in moving forward. We actually learnt a few lessons from that time.
Helen Darlington:
I think Mark refers to it as, “The time when INK was wearing a new dress.” Our communication to the team and clients, it was confusing. We struggled with new business during that time as well. But once we identified what our issue was, and we took the plunge and we moved forward 100% committed to Woven and all of the positivities that came with that, we saw success. So I think the learning for me, is it’s a balance. Sometimes you may act too quickly. Sometimes you may not act quickly enough, but I think as long as we reflect back and continually learn from those events, you can make better decisions going forward. You’re not going to get it right all of the time.
Si Muddell:
I think it is, it’s about admitting and understanding failure, isn’t it? I mean, I say all the time, but failure is only when you do the same thing twice, or when you fail at the same thing twice. From a cultural perspective, I think, we talk about radical transparency and honesty, and actually if there is an error or a mistake, it’s about, like you say, calling it out and going, “Look, we’re a team. How can we resolve this?” And it sounds like that’s a really good case study that you’ve mentioned there around that.
Si Muddell:
Next question is I, the said podcast, that I will put in the notes on the page when we post this, but it really was great. You talked, or you asked the question around you’re a leader within the industry, you’re female. Has that, being a female in the industry, has it affected you in a positive way or in a negative way? Or have there been more barriers or less barriers because of that. You answered it really well there, but it’d be great if you could bring that into this conversation a little bit and share what your thoughts are on that?
Helen Darlington:
I think on reflection, yes, there have been instances throughout my career, where being female has not gone in my favor. I’m not going to call anybody out. I’m not that type of person, but it’s only on reflection. While I was employed in certain businesses, I don’t think I ever really noticed it at the time. What I would say, is this is a huge topic. Diversity is an issue in our industry. It’s something that I feel incredibly empowered to try and improve, even if it’s just a teeny tiny bit.
Helen Darlington:
It’s not just about being female, gender is an issue, but so is race, and so is sex. It’s just, as an industry, we need to be better. So that’s one of the reasons why I’m a member of the All In Leeds community. And diversity is one of my pillars to try and improve. In all honesty, I think that’s a much bigger conversation. And what I would really like to do, is I’d like to open it up. I’d like to have a forum where people can share their stories and we can learn from them and we can make improvements off the back of it.
Si Muddell:
Yeah, brilliant. Aside from your very lovely boy, Gino, what gets you up in the morning? What motivates you still?
Helen Darlington:
I love what I do, Si. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t be here. I mean, there’s been long hours, financial sacrifices, personal sacrifices. Literally blood, sweat, and a few tears, but I absolutely, genuinely, hand on heart, love what I do. I’m older, a little wiser. So now I’m really focusing on working smarter, not longer or harder, achieving what I need to achieve and still having plenty of energy and time for my family.
Helen Darlington:
I am super close to my parents and my husband and son, as you know, mean the absolute world to me. They all ground me and give me that reality check when one is very much needed. And they make me laugh. I think, without getting too deep, you only get one round at life. It has to be filled with the stuff that you really enjoy. But what I would say, is probably about six years ago, about work-life balance. It was massively out of whack. I had very little life.
Helen Darlington:
I made a conscious decision to make some changes and thankfully they’ve paid off. So of the following years, we brought in a new business partner, Mark, which was a hugely positive turning point for me. Thankfully, excuse me, with the other changes and compromises over time, I now have that balance that I wanted. So I spend time doing the work that I love and I’m good at. But I have time to teach Gino how to play piano. So-
Si Muddell:
Yes.
Helen Darlington:
I mean, I’m really good [inaudible 00:19:58].
Si Muddell:
I think that’s really sound advice. And I, as an anecdote to that, I suppose that I’m … In a different role, I was putting together a team’s, we call it a SOAP strategy on a page. Essentially within that, there were guiding principles or strategic pillars, if you like, to use the phrase that we use. It was all a bit serious. I was a bit serious in it. I remember going through it with a guy I really respected, this very strategic chap, called Richard. We were talking through it. And then he said, “There’s one more thing that you should add to this.” And I was like, “No, there’s not.” He said, “It’s eat cake.” And you know what? It might not, I don’t know how profound it will sound on here, but at the time where I was in the middle of …
Si Muddell:
I had a big team, I had big targets. We were talking millions of pounds at that time. It was stressful and it was stressful for me. It was pressurized to me. It was pressurized for my team and I’d done this really serious thing, but you know what? The one thing I’d forgotten, which actually is probably one of my biggest strengths. On paper, I’d forgotten people. I’d actually forgotten the people and the human element of it. I was a bit like, “Wow, this was like an uppercut to me.” It was so profound, the serious, serious, serious, but eat cake. I really, it’s always stayed with me, that. And it was a really good life lesson. So I think that’s what you’re saying. We all need to eat a bit more cake. And spend time, have a cuppa, spend time with our family and not be busy fools.
Helen Darlington:
It’s got to be fun. It has to be fun.
Si Muddell:
Thank you.
Helen Darlington:
If it’s not fun, why the hell are you doing it?
Si Muddell:
We only get one chance. I agree. So for any aspiring entrepreneur, that’s listening to this, or an entrepreneur that’s older and still aspiring, which is absolutely fine. In summary, what advice would you give them?
Helen Darlington:
I think that’s a really tough one. Because we’re all very different and we’re all on very different journeys. But I think there’s three things I would say. Firstly, believe in yourself. Secondly, not too much. Surround yourself with people who truly want to help you get where you want to be, but that aren’t afraid to challenge your train of thought. So you can have meaningful, positive debates to reach the best outcome. And then the third piece of advice would be, remember that the best decision is often the one that is least wrong. It’s very rare that it will be 100% right.
Si Muddell:
Yeah. That’s really good advice then. And, finally, final question. What are you most excited about for Woven?
Helen Darlington:
Just progression, positive progression for the team, for the fantastic clients. You never know what’s around the corner. I mean, we’re in a global pandemic. Who saw that coming? I didn’t.
Si Muddell:
[crosstalk 00:23:16]
Helen Darlington:
I was sitting in the office, trying not to be blasé about it, with Mark saying, “We should probably be packing up and going home.” I’m like, “No, it probably won’t come to that.”
Si Muddell:
[inaudible 00:23:28].
Helen Darlington:
But I think out of every difficulty or challenge, there is always an opportunity to be better and to do better. So that is what I’m most excited about, is the possibility.
Si Muddell:
Brilliant. Well that’s, thanks so much. I thought that was really interesting and I hope everyone else found it interesting. Thanks Helen.
Helen Darlington:
Thanks Si. See you later.
Si Muddell:
Bye.
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